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SEMC, Project: Hall Monitors

Discussion in 'General' started by Revinous, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. Revinous

    Revinous Stormguard

    Welp, I'm in the car on the way home (no, I'm not driving :) So I I've had this idea in my head for the past year or so, but @justmikewilldo 's thread prompted me to actually write my thoughts up. With the rising levels of toxicity and 5v5 incoming soon, some sort of system needs to be put in place to handle the player base.

    The Proposition:
    There are many systems that can be used. Ex: AFK Detection is already active as an automated system. With the moderators/developers/and support constantly busy putting out new and reviving content, there is no "real" time for them to manualy process through the playerbase.

    Sooooo, as done with Public Beta not source from the active playing community, and create a 'in-game moderating system' that can be used to manually target the toxic players. If you have ever played Habbo, you might know that they have had some success in sourcing in game support and moderators from trustworthy voluntary community players. Which bings me to the next topic.

    Applying and Application:
    Now, you may be thinking...who deserves to be an in-game monitor?

    Personally, it should apply just the same way PBE is handled. With the following guidelines in the application:

    • 1-2+ year Veteran
    • Low to none account citations
    • Tier does not matter, but a high understanding of the game is required.
    • Active in the Vainglory community.
    • Willing to spend 2-4 hours a week on the moderation job
    Which now leads to the actual job and implementation.

    1. A report button will be added for live game reports.
    This function will be available to all players and will screenshot all current player builds and will log purchase, sell history, and deaths from that point of time. This will be viewable to the moderation team to whoever chooses to view the live report case.

    2. Live Report View
    If a player has been deemed to be indeed trolling(selling all items/buying tons of mines/turret feeding), and not just playing poorly (build path is horrible, careless effort to do their actual best) then the match loss will not affect the teammates, and instead will be taken out of the troll, as well as being placed in LPQ. Players who abuse the report system will get this functionality taken away.

    3. Further analysis
    If a player has multiple citations on their account (repeat offender) a direct message will be sent to the players account warning of a account ban. (Account locked out for a set amount of time). The levels increase all the way to account deletion and device ban.

    So, with these ideas on paper, I would hope the Developers take the time to read this thread. This system is very lightweight to implement, and would save much needed time on their part and on us players and making and reviewing reports.

    This system is purely voluntary, but incentive will be given to those who are helpful and active on the team.

    Now this is the end of my thoughts, on which I hope is really implemented.

    • Like Like x 8
    • Winner Winner x 6
    • Awesome Awesome x 2
  2. Skieblu

    Skieblu Technologist

    Interesting idea. The main issue SEMC is trying to avoid is false positives where innocent people get LPQ for no reason. A suggestion I have brought up a few times is having a harsher system that detects things more often, such as selling a lot of items or sitting at base, but it would be unable to punish players without receiving enough downvotes from the players.

    Essentially, when the system detects something like selling 3+ tier 3 items quickly, it would detect that and count as something like 3 typical player downvotes. Now the context of this scenario might warrant it to not be ban worthy, such as someone needing to change their defensive items. This is where the players come into play. If they also downvote the player who got flagged by the system, then it can be enough to get the downvotes needed for punishment in just one match. If nobody downvotes the player, then the system may have wrongfully detected it, but it would not punish the player. Having a system like this would help make it easier to get the downvotes needed to punish trolls. Getting a player into LPQ is still possible just through downvotes, but having a system that can automatically add downvotes for each offense can help push the system along. The only concern about this is that the system will have to be less harsh in brawl modes and lower ranked games.
    • Like Like x 3
  3. DarkHydra2002

    DarkHydra2002 Stormguard

    This is what I mean when I say foolproof
  4. Xaldarian

    Xaldarian Stormguard

    Awesome, winner, creative.

    Star this!!!! Reccommend it to all devs!

    Intermittend AFK can be handled this way too. People who afk for 1-2 minutes 5 times during a match....
  5. Dachigenius

    Dachigenius Technologist

    omg fellow habbo player!!
    • Funny Funny x 2
  6. Setbackss

    Setbackss Nightmare Goat

    I actually think this would work pretty well.
  7. Revinous

    Revinous Stormguard

    Brawl modes won't have the manual system. I don't think I have ever seen a troll in BR or Brawl other than poor performance. Casuals will be monitored ,whilst Ranked is strictly monitored (With greater punishments).
  8. HipsterSkaarf

    HipsterSkaarf Community Moderator

    This is an interesting idea - you're basically trying to mobilize an in-game army of community police to monitor trolling in near real-time, when it's identified in-game. The strength of this is catching misdeeds quickly, so players are given real-time feedback about how their behavior is or isn't acceptable. That's great for teaching, and also for calming down players who've been mistreated. Your idea has some possibilities, but I can think of at least a few problems.

    1) With any non-automated system, you'll have to balance the number of reports with the number of available monitors. I can imagine this system would be overloaded really quickly. Just as people don't universally understand what "trolling" is, there will be many false positives as people report other players for innocent mistakes or misunderstandings, especially in-game, while tempers are flaring. I think you'd have to recruit upwards of 30% of the player-base to survive the initial flush of reports. Once you get backlogged, you introduce delays, and start punishing for misdeeds that players don't really remember doing, which nullifies the teaching aspect. Or you decide to throw out the initial flush and only 'start' the system when the report numbers have calmed to a reasonable level. This would be awful for player confidence in the system, so you can't do that. Maybe 20% is a sustainable long-term participation rate (~1 in each game), but I don't know, you might need more, so multiple sets of eyes can review each report as they happen.

    2) The system would actually incentivize false reports because you'd have to initiate a report every time you think you *might* catch a troll. If they stop trolling, the report is wasted moderation time, inflating the number of monitors you need.

    3) If stats are recorded after a live report is initiated, the report will miss trollish behavior from earlier in the match. Say someone trolls in response to someone else trolling them. This is bad, of course, but I imagine it could be true for a number of reports. Maybe this is ok, since reporting someone will make the reporter show their best behavior, but it produces prisoner's dilemmas where you weigh the odds of trolling/not trolling against the other player's likelihood to troll in response or report you. Don't know. You still have the same problem of requiring lots of monitors.

    4) I wouldn't call this a lightweight fix. There would be pretty intensive amounts of coding to make this kind of infrastructure, with a fairly involved community program design as well, and an on-going assessment process. It's a big system you're proposing. Not bad, but big.

    All that said, I don't think this is a terrible idea, just a lot of things working against it. It'd be great to introduce some nuance to the reporting system that can quickly identify trolling for guaranteed results. I think you'd have to put some kind of pressure on the ease of reporting (maybe people only get to do it once or twice a week/month?), or make it clear when someone should be reported (which is basically what the thumbs are), or advertise that live reports are only reviewed if two, three, four(?) players all report the troll, or something. And you'd have to make it visible, so any delays in judgement are offset by an immediate "I'm watching you" moment. Maybe something like an end-of-game dialog box saying "This match (or 'Your behavior') has been reported by four players. It will now be submitted for community review."
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. justmikewilldo

    justmikewilldo Mageborn

    • Like Like x 1
    • Awesome Awesome x 1
  10. ScarletZero

    ScarletZero Elder

    Devs DO Read Forumn Posts....
    They dont often answer, but they do read the Threads as often as possible afaiaaorn
  11. justmikewilldo

    justmikewilldo Mageborn

    Yeah, I know.... not sure why you keep trying to act like I'm confused or something. I brought this to the OP's attention because this isn't just any dev, he's one of the founders of SEMC, it's current CTO, (which would be the exact C level executive you'd want to see a post on this topic) and for shits and giggles the guy Krul is named after.
  12. Revinous

    Revinous Stormguard

    Answers to some of your bullet points.

    1). Hopefully, if this sort of system ever gets implemented, the player base will have grown for the 5v5 release. Another thing I hope that will happen is training to the reviewers, which in turn help them to be efficient in processing reviews.

    2. Warnings of false reports will be made. Reports can only be made after the 5:00 minute mark.

    3. The past history of the match will also hopefully be logged.

    Another requirement for the report to be live viewed is having 3+ reporters. Which I believe should be sufficient enough Ina 3v3 to really determine if a player is being toxic or if it is just a personal report attack against someone.
  13. LegendaryE

    LegendaryE Stormguard

    i used to get a lot of unskilled players but i called them trolls
    until i matched with straight trolls back to back , one of them was killing himself by diving 1v3
    and he died 15 times that match , i dont know if you consider him a troll or unskilled player , the game was very close to be a win for our team
    but he insisted in diving 1v3 the rest of the game , enemy stole kraken from me and they pushed and they won

    if i consider myself a mod in your system and spectated the game and watched that . i would put that guy in troll category
    the rest maybe someone like @HipsterSkaarf could come and spectate and say its unskilled play , well the guy was doing 1v3 the whole game
    he could be considered unskilled because his build wasn't bad , his decision was bad he threw the game .

    i honestly going to put everyone doing bad fights as trolls , like someone chasing a kill instead of taking the kraken
    if his teammates reported him , i would consider him a big troll , your win condition get a big push by taking kraken , go to casual and chase kills as you want , this is a ranked match .
  14. KidSafeShark

    KidSafeShark Technologist

    I would rather deal with an occasional troll and have more "gameplay" updates
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. SkarfPls

    SkarfPls Undead

    This might actually work, but I do not think SEMC would use it

    also rip habbo hotel
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